hey, i have a question for any readers out there. some of my good friends seem to spew venom every now and again at the EC "movement." i wonder how we can discern the difference between doing old things in new ways and completely throwing out old things. i didn't say that very well. here's my issue. i don't like going to church. i am a pastor, but i wish most sundays that i didn't have to go. now, i serve in a wonderful church. not perfect, but wonderful. God works there, people seem to like it - except me. i can still worship, i still love the people there, but i don't get excited about going. it doesn't wake me up in the morning with that feeling of "hurrah, i get to go to church today." i don't very often look forward to sunday mornings...if ever. to me it seems like something's missing for me. i connect better with God in other places than i do in church. and i wonder not if what we are doing there is wrong, but if there is another way of doing church that would make the gospel more real in the lives of people like myself.
now there is a fine line between my being selfish and consumerist in expecting church to "meet my needs" and my expectation that the gospel lived out in a church community should be relevant to real needs in my life. i don't want to be a selfish pig, but i do want to enjoy church. i want to be excited to go celebrate with my community of believers. i'm not. why? ...i find that some of the questions being asked in the EC community are good ones. ones that i identify with.
so i wonder...for people like me - how do i find church that is real and relevant without throwing out the baby with the bathwater? and as a pastor working in a wonderful church that God is using but that i don't always like attending - how can i become a creator, not a destoyer? i don't want to be a whiner, but a helper.
i know that worship is about God - not about me, and all that. but here's the crux. teaching, community, etc.. should reach into felt needs in a person's life. the gospel lived out in a church community should be the answer to our deepest questions, hurts, and needs. when those needs, hurts, and questions are not being met and answered, then i have to ask if there is a better way to "do church." when a person feels safer being themself in a local pub than they do in church, something is wrong. hence the EC community conversations. maybe church should be in the local pub. (grin) i don't know. i just have a lot of questions right now. any advice? what do you think?
2.16.2005
EC and me
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9 comments:
sorry palletjack... EC is Emergent Church. your new service sounds neat. keep me updated on how it goes! what new things do you try? how do they work? what are your core values? how are you incorporating the essential practices of Christian life and worship? how do you arrive at your decision of what is essential and what isn't?
brando, one thing that frustrates me is the arrogance that is sometimes present and sometimes imagined among EC supporters (this is everywhere, btw). the desire to talk about their knowledge and distrust of kantian epistemology or their support of wittgensteinian language games i find frustrating. anyone that wants to live the faith, though, is right up my alley--which is stressed by emergent supporters.
ap, i would agree with you that there is some arrogance. there are some things that are bothersome. mark b's blog had a link to an article that was a good satire of some EC quirks.
btw, what are kantian epistemology and wittgensteinian word games?
kant drew a hard line between the noumenal and the phenomenal--the noumenal being the realm of God, which we can't know and the phenomenal being the realm of our creation, which we can know by our five senses and by reason. the realm of God we only know by faith.
wittgenstein emphasized the role of language in how we think--that a person who spoke French would genuinely think differently from a person who spoke English (in other words, not just using different words for the same concepts). in this, truth would be found in language which changes, develops, and is contextual. entering into dialogue with a person is entering into their language game--like if a person were to enter a different culture, or even if a non-scientist were to enter into a conversation with a scientist, since their languages are so different.
didn't intend to get into that, but hope it helps. btw, i don't think that all EC people do that. i just get skeptical when people believe they "finally have it right."
thanks ap,
i definitely agree with your last comment about people thinking they "finally have it right" - it's not necessarily more right or better, just more different. sometimes different is better for certain people, but that doesn't make it more right.
anyway, i think that some of the EC conversations are worth listening to. they have some good points too.
very well said b!
it's like you stepped into my head and wrote more eloquently than i was thinking ;)
re: arrogance
i find the arrogance of those who "finally have it right" just as wrong as those who "never had it wrong"
re: comfort at church
my journey down this road started with the simple exercise of imagining one of my non-Christian friends sitting in the church pew next to me. eventually the frequesnt desire to puke caused me to give up that habit (and i've been in churches that were much worse).
there is an oft quoted statistic that says that new Christians have less than 2 years before they break contact their non-Christian friends. perhaps it would be different if more church-goers could still put themselves in a non-Christian's shoes
am i "emergent"?
probably
am i part of a "movement"?
don't know, i'm just going where God takes me
I find I agree with almost everything the EC says. I also find that most of the contemporary church agrees and says the same things. The only difference is most people say those things with the church and the EC says them to the church. I prefer the former.
This is a way less deep answer than anything given so far although you could get into a whole thing about gifts and the body but my point is this: I love my church and i do look forward to coming here on Sunday mornings. Not because of what I can get out of it or because it meets my felt needs but because of what I can put into it. I can't stand going to church when I am not on the worship team or preaching or doing something. Even in places where the Music suits my preferences and the preaching if rough (I like it rough)and I'm with people I love I just get board sitting there listening and "engaging with God in worship and blah blah spiritualized blah" I connect with God through service and using my gifts. I usually learn more from preaching than from listening to a preacher, I have the most engaging worship times when I am leading, I feel a deeper sense of community when I am serving as a greeter. What are the other ways you connect to God - is there a way you can incorporate that into your Sunday worship experience? I think boredom brought on by not serving according to our gifts is a safeguard God put in place to make sure that mature Christians do stuff. I'm sure there is something about the priesthood of all believers in there to.
hey everybody, thanks for your comments. some good thoughts floating around...
really appreciated your insight aj into using my gifts, and dmw into finding different aspects of church life that i do connect with.
maybe the combination of those two will prove fruitful. who knows. anyway, it's all forward motion.
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